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Dumb comparison/defense, Dalton

If you’re wondering why I’m not exactly blown away by Dalton Mcguinty, Liberal premier of Ontario, stories like this are a good example of why I roll my eyes:

In a closed-door meeting with MPPs on Wednesday, McGuinty deflected questions from members unhappy at the heavy-handedness of police in dealing with protesters—and the government’s complicity in failing to correct the mistaken impression officers had been given more powers.

“He told us, ‘Just remember, the same guy who gave us the Charter also gave us the War Measures Act,’” said one startled MPP, noting the premier also refuted calls from several members to strike a public inquiry into the G20 debacle.

“Then things got even weirder—he said: ‘Don’t forget about the silent majority.’”

That was an apparent reference to former U.S. president Nixon’s 1969 appeal to the “great silent majority” of middle-class voters who did not take to the streets to protest American involvement in Vietnam.

Beyond anything else, Trudeau at least went on public television to explain that he was invoking the War Measures Act and why he was invoking it. The provincial Liberal government of Mcguinty tried to sneak a law giving extraordinary power for the police through without any fanfare – and then couldn’t explain properly what powers the police had been given – even to the police, who decided to take a very, uh, broad view of what they were allowed to do, or what the public wasn’t allowed to do.

As for invoking Nixon, that was just dumb.. dumb, dumb, dumb. I don’t think I need to expand on that.

What’s more interesting to me is that certain Liberals in the caucus were unhappy enough to air this to the Star. I think this is the first time that we’ve seen unhappy rumblings coming from the caucus, so more then a few members must be extremely unhappy over how this is being handled by the Premier.


23 comments to Dumb comparison/defense, Dalton

  • Jenny

    And further to that point — I think it is good that all of you participate in protests if you feel like it. I just think the Liberal party should start wearing this because it is the face of many of its members. Perhaps take a flag next time. See how the Liberal leadership reacts to that.

    • Jon Pertwee

      @Jenny, Jenny that just doesnt make any sense. Liberal MPs and supporters are entitled to protest whatever I want. If I as a liberal supporter decided to protest eggs should the Liberal Party put that into their policy?

      That’s just stupid Jenny. The sky isn’t falling.

      Why should any political party owe up to a ridiculous accusation like yours.

      I’ve read many times that Harper read a lot about Stalin. Maybe under your logic the Conservative Party should change their logo to Stalin’s head and go door to door saying I love Stalin.

      So stupid

    • ck

      Jenny, you just proved you advocate for a Harpercon totalitarian regime right there. Let’s say the Liberal party did have powers to somehow work some kind of voodoo to ensure that their members, who are average citizens like Scott here don’t go out and protest. Well, that would be a way the Liberal party would lose their members and funding that goes along with it. No members; no funding; no party. No opposition.

      Jenny, we’re tired of you talking in circles. Just come out and say what you and your Harpercon cheerleading compatriots all think. That you prefer no opposition parties. No election. Just hand Ol’ sweater vest Steve the keys to Parliament and let him go crazy until he tires of it or dies. I think the commenters on this board all want to hear the answer to that question, dearest Jenny! In fact, nothing less this time, will suffice.

  • Jenny


    Protesters (ie: small mobs) are HATED by the general public. There are many polls to back this opinion up. These small mobs take to the streets to inconvience the majority and try to convince them that their cause is worth it. Good luck with that.

    Democracy is not found in protests from the minorities, it is found during elections, letters, and civilized debates. If me and my friends decided we wanted to block Yonge Street so you could hear conservative viewpoints before you travelled through you would want me arrested. Protests turn people the other way, and I know there were Liberal members involved with anti-G20 protests despite the official Liberal party line that they strongly support it.

    • Jon Pertwee

      @Jenny, Jenny protesting is a right of all Canadians. Protesting can be as simple as writing a letter. Small mobs are small mobs. Plain and simple. You can protest without destruction and the majority of time that is what happens. I have no idea why you have such contempt towards freedom and rights.

      Democracy is found in protests and they aren’t always from minorities. You seem to advocate removing the right to expression from minorities which is more akin to tyranny and authoritarianism. If that’s what you want, fine, then just say it. Block Yonge Street just to force people to hear Conservative viewpoints? That’s not a protest, just forcing people to hear your views. Now that isnt free expression either. What you are saying is that you and your friends want to block off Yonge Street and coerce the public into listening to you. That isnt a protest in the least. What you are saying is you want to force your views onto others. Hardly the behaviour of a majority, democracy or a grown up person.

      You like to carp on about this G20 talking point despite it’s myriad of flaws. Liberal MPs like any other citizen have a right to protest. People have a right to their own opinion Jenny. I know that bothers you but we do live in a country where we are free to do that. Since you have no proof of any of them being part of the black bloc I will just chalk that up to the heat making you delusional.

      The bottom line is this Jenny, you rarely argue in favour of freedom and democracy. Instead, the sum of all your arguments is a contempt for individual freedom, democracy and anything different than you. There’s your newsflash.

      • Jenny

        No protest is “peaceful” that takes to the streets to tie up traffic and freedom of mobility. It is rather coercive in nature. It is mob mentality.

        But that is not my point. The Liberal Party of Canada will always shy away from protests because they know it is bad politics. But the public should know that a lot of their active members are involved with protests, especially during the G20. The general public should know the true face of the Liberal party, which I am sure all of you are representative of. But your leadership claims other things and disassociates with you purposely. Why do you think Iggy said nothing regarding protests? Because he doesn’t want to get blamed for it.

        No, I am not even talking about black bloc tactics. I am talking about “peaceful” protests that the majority of Canadians hate.

        • Jon Pertwee

          @Jenny, But Jenny you were talking about all protesters and lumping all forms of protest under your authoritarian mantle. Noone is arguing that social disruption such as riots are a good thing but you consistently accuse others of doing so. Is your argument so weak that that is your only defense?

          “The Liberal Party of Canada will always shy away from protests because they know it is bad politics. But the public should know that a lot of their active members are involved with protests, especially during the G20. The general public should know the true face of the Liberal party, which I am sure all of you are representative of.”

          First, you have no proof at all of these accusations. Jenny you do need proof in the real world. This just sounds like the result of too many hot headed windbags getting together. Try backing up your statements.

          Have you ever though that getting yourself frothed up in self-indignation that you might end up losing perspective of the argument. Conservative or Liberal you always go straight for the most nutty argument. You hurl around accusations without proof then you try to claim its a fact. The only thing you are doing is giving the impression you’d love some Authoritarianism.

          Jenny you don’t speak for the majority of Canadians. Just because a poll says so doesnt mean all Canadians believe that. You dont even now what question was asked of the pollers. Polls are easily biased and interpreted so try not to base your world on the way the wind blows.

          I can easily find as many Canadians to counter you. See not all of us are easily led sheep.

          Enjoy the authoritarianism Jenny, it won’t last forever.

  • The reason Dalton couldn’t explain it is because he didn’t want to, at least that is the impression that I get after seeing his “excuses” after the fact. I don’t doubt for one second that the police really did know the scope of the legislation, I mean all one has to do is read.

    But they say they made a mistake and the public is just supposed to forgive and forget because Dalton doesn’t think this mistake warrants a probe. The Charter of Rights is clear and hopefully the police would learn about them in police college. We don’t need Dalton and Blair making fools out of us by trying to make us believe that they didn’t know what the heck they were doing.

  • Jenny, there’s a big difference between being “anti-police” and anti police brutality. I guess this is too fine a distinction for you to make. And given the fact that the police were ordered not to impose law and order when the law was actually being broken, that part of your argument is also incorrect. I’d even go so far as to say that anyone who supports the police conduct during the summit weekend: illegal arrests, illegal detention, illegal suspension of civil rights, enforcement of a fake law, and numerous, well-documented instances of brutality against innocent people – they are the ones who are anti law and order.

    As for being pro-protester, a big yes to that. It’s not only legal, but it is one of the cornerstones of citizen involvement in democracy. Are you anti-democracy too? Sounds like it.

  • Jenny

    @Jon Pertwee

    I have a feeling that you have a hard time figuring out a lot of things.

    Despite what the Liberal leadership wants the general public to think, there were Liberal party members who were demonstrators and protesters in the streets of Toronto during the G20. That is the true face of the Liberal Party.

    • Jon Pertwee

      @Jenny, please Jenny, how can you make such an unfounded allegation. You have proven nothing and provided only ignorant vitriol. I know this is your usual tactic to issue scorn about others but as per usual it falls flat.

      Now Jenny, Im sure there were a lot of conservative party supporters amongst the police who abused that role. Under your logic that makes you an fascist authoritarian.

      Nice logic.

    • @Jenny, So what if there were Liberal Party members protesting during the G8? That’s their constitutional legal right to do so.

      IF you’re implying a bunch of Liberal Party members were involved in the “Black Bloc” attacks/vandalism on Saturday, that’s a smear job galore. Protesting and what the black bloc anarchists did are two totally different events – theirs was a criminal enterprise, and those are the folks that the police shoud have turned their sonic cannons and other tactics on.. not peaceful demonstrators.

  • Jenny

    I hope folks are reading this stuff put out by Liberal bloggers and Liberal supporters. They are anti-police, anti-law and order, and pro-protester. In fact, many of them participate in such actions. I think it is important for the true grassroots of the Liberal party to be understood by the general public.

    The Liberal leadership is smart enough to avoid this in public, but this is the true face of its members.

    While I may disagree with you Scott at least you stand by your principles and we know where you are coming from. I just wish more would people would understand that the Liberal Party is not the fiscally conservative, pro-law and order, Party it brands itself to be.

    • @Jenny, Please note that I’ve stated before that I’m not a card-carrying member of the Provincial Liberal Party of Ontario, which is different from the Federal Liberals (of which I am a member).

      I’ve even mused publicly I may be voting for someone other then the Ontario Liberals at their next provincial election (not the provincial PC’s, but the other 2 alternatives).

      • Jenny

        My comments also apply to the Federal Party who brands itself as fiscally conservative and pro law and order. There is a reason why Iggy didn’t say anything as well although I am sure he thinks as you do.

  • I agree a hunnert percent’s worth, Scotty. Dumb on Dalton’s part. I’ve seen a bit of chatter to the effect that Ginty is coverin’ his ass on accounta he’s afraid of lawsuits against the province. If he starts apologizin’ for bad police behaviour, he makes it easier for litigants to sue.

    What I’m curious about is what Ignatieff has to say about the police tactics. He’s been vocal on the waste re the security budget and he’s come out for business owners that suffered losses dues to the g20 but I’ve been waiting and watching at for any mention of the peaceful protesters arrests and the brutal tactics employed by the police. So far, nada… zip… nothing.

    The Greens have called for a public inquiry. The NDP pushed through a motion for the Public Safety Committee to look into the issue. Could it be that Iggy is reticent about getting involved on accounta he doesn’t wanna ruffle Dalton’s feathers? Have any Liberal MPs spoken out against the outrageous affront to peaceful assembly? Many downtown Toronto ridings are represented in Ottawa by Liberals and I would expect the party to be at least as proactive as the Federal Greens and Federal NDP.

    • ck

      Why do you want the Liberals to call a public inquiry? Will it help their poll numbers?

      Sadly JB, with the Harpercons raising in the polls to 34% at the Liberals expense to 23%; coupled with the Angus reid poll that showed that Canadians are just a-ok with police chiefs inventing laws and using fake evidence to beat up and arrest to stamp out dissenters and ripping the legs off amputees. What do you want the liberals to do? If they asked for an inquiry; the public would lash out at them too. They need to steal votes from Harpercons; not NDP.

      NdP and Greens remain the same in numbers; they have nothing to lose; most Canadians consider them fringe anyway. And how hard are they really pushing, anyway? As usual, they’ ll huff and puff for awile and then they’ll tire and move on.

      I would rather see the UN and/or Amnesty involved. But would settle for independent inquiries not called by governments. Why do we have to wait for others to do it anyway?

      What I find most interesting is why the Bloc has been remaining silent, given so many of the arrested were Quebecers.

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