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Global warming cant be real – Antarctica is still cold!

I see over at some Blogging Tory sites they’re trying to cling to the fact that the recent UN Report in Global Warming that I discussed here is somehow bogus because Antarctica is the lone continent which isnt showing an increase in Co2 gasses. Supposedly that somehow makes them “question” global warming being a man-made event. Apparently the fact Co2 has steadily increased over every other continent is somehow irrelevant – its all about Antarctica!

Whether the Co2 down there isn’t increasing is irrelevant when the fact of the matter is Antarctica is affected by global warming as anywhere else is – and possibly worse; iceberg shelves are melting/breaking off down there at unseen rates with no historical precedent; Antarctica’s average temperature has increased faster then the global average since 1945.

So.. now that we’ve debunked that particular talking point, maybe some BT’ers can start talking about how to stop global warming, rather then cover their eyes and pretend its some conspiracy to prevent corporations from making money/government plotting to interfere in the capitalist market/introduce socialism and take away all our freedoms spiel they seem to get on over this.

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15 comments to Global warming cant be real – Antarctica is still cold!

  • Word,

    Relating global warming to Iraq, is apples and oranges, and just plain silly.

    I’m not sure what “Where was all your concern when u.n. weapons inspectors hadn’t found anything on the runup to the iraq war?” has to do with me or my thoughts on global warming.

    Again “Conservatives bear ALL the responsibility for the Iraq war. Now people want to trust them on something as important: global warming” you’re relating a political decision to invade Iraq to trying to understand Global warming so the right course of action can be taken rationally?

    “Cons don’t deserve to be trusted” this sheer nonsense and you know it.

  • word

    Kitchen con: “We’re not getting the whole picture yet, and we need to get, to make the right decision.”

    Oh, so now the cons are trying to be responsible with information? Where was all your concern when u.n. weapons inspectors hadn’t found anything on the runup to the iraq war? Now you have a select concern for the facts because you have been brainwashed by polluting corporations into not acting.

    What happened to Cheney’s 1% doctrine? Why won’t the cons apply it to global warming? Oh yeah, must be because the “science lobby” isn’t as strong as the oil/weapons lobby, the real reason we’re in Iraq and engaged in a “generation long struggle.”

    You want to quibble about inaction or misaction? Conservatives bear ALL the responsibility for the Iraq war. Now people want to trust them on something as important: global warming. Cons don’t deserve to be trusted. Impeach these idiots and get someone with a brain in office.

  • Antarctica is cooling so global warming must be fake!!!

    at least thats what many would want you to believe, but not the studies authors.

    “IN the debate on global warming, the data on the climate of Antarctica has been distorted, at different times, by both sides. As a polar researcher caught in the middle, I’d like to set the record straight…

    In the meantime, I would like to remove my name from the list of scientists who dispute global warming. I know my coauthors would as well.”

    http://www.amhersttimes.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2308&Itemid=27

  • Kitchener Conservative,

    Are you arguing that CO2 is not as greenhouse gas!? Ha! We know that it is because, for example, we have extensive measurements from orbit showing that it is happening as well as lab experiments galore. I rhetorically question whether you believe in it because to my knowledge we never 100% proved that CFC’s were damaging the ozone layer either. We demonstrated that in the lab, and by showing the ozone hole over Antarctic, and thinning elsewhere. People still argue that the hole may be natural.

    I’m not aware of anything which says that CO2 concentrations are significantly different in Antarctica. The fact that Antarctica hasn’t, on average, warmed doesn’t mean that CO2 levels there are lower. The article pointed to by Scott in the other thread doesn’t actually say that CO2 levels over Antarctica are lower. It says that temps haven’t seemed to rise, and that would be an average, which allows for unusual warming in some areas is other areas are colder.

    There is not argument out there saying that increased concentration of CO2 globally result in all regions becoming warmer. We are looking at a global effect. Climate patterns most certainly still exists, and will, and are indeed, becoming more extreme. Some areas will become cooler, for example.

    Furthermore, the IPCC report isn’t out yet. I would suggest people read it before critiquing it? When it shows up, you can read it at: http://www.ipcc.ch

    “I think climatology is still too young of a science to have all the answer’s. And it seems to be one of the only scientific discipline’s that doesn’t allow for critical thought.”

    This is certainly not true! The debate been’s on since the 1970s. What you are really demonstrating here is that you aren’t following the debate.

    Many of the denialists claim that they are kept out of the process, but the truth is, they don’t submit papers to be peer-reviewed, which is the process. They instead get paid by interests to stick their half-assed claims in op-eds and on web sites.

    The evidence for Global Warming being human-induced is huge. We know we are the source of the CO2 increase. We know that the results of this uncontrolled global ‘experiment’ are at best unpredictable. At worst, devastating.

    There will always be doubters, honest or not. The clock is ticking. We have a duty to proceed immediately. With a matter this grave, with this much data backing it, you really need to be applying the precautionary principle, and not be demanding that every last detail be perfectly demonstrated but instead be demanding that the critiques of global warming instead reach that high standard, which they don’t.

    We don;t have thel uxury to wait until 2050 or even 2025 for Global Warming to be perfectly proven, assuming that it ever can be. That’ll be too late.

  • Scott,

    “It could also be due to the warmth of the water surrounding Antarctica flowing past the ice.”…That’s sort of my point, “It could” implies there is still a lack knowledge in this area, everything in the UN report is based on models that depend on the data put into them. My point is there’s so many variables to it, and much theory is discounted outright because it doesn’t fit on the Human – GHG models. We’re not getting the whole picture yet, and we need to get, to make the right decision.

    White Rose Grit said,

    “Brian Mulroney was the exception, but even that was after the hole was discovered.”, well duh…it was proven that CFC react with Ozone to break it down, the world reacted based on fact not supposition.

  • Dionosaur

    At no time, whether you were the Official opposition or not, whether you were under Day, Harper, Manning, Clark or whomever, you did nothing. You did not do your duty in opposition to hold the government’s feet to the fire on this, meaning you are as responsible as the Liberals.

    Finally, a credible Liberal criticism of the Conservatives!!! Bingo.

  • knb

    I find it ironic that Conservative’s like ex-ndip, (not all conservatives), are making the case to not trust Harper on anything he says about environment or climate change. He has no credibility on the issue to begin with and devotees like ex-ndip, shout that fact from the roof tops. Bizarre.

  • Kitchener Conservative,

    Brian Mulroney was the exception, but even that was after the hole was discovered.

    I was referring to Regan and Tatcher, who were the leading conservatives at the time. Some Liberals of the day, were also denying Ozone Layer Depletion, the same liberals today are denying Global Warming.

    Sorry I should have made that clear.

  • Look, the Liberals did nothing about GHG and Kyoto and Global warming for 13 years. We get it.

    Of course during that same time the Conservatives\PC\Reform variants did all of this:

    Yep, nothing. That’s right Conservatives, if we are going to examine 13 years of Liberal inaction and blame the previous government, let also look at your record over that time. At no time, whether you were the Official opposition or not, whether you were under Day, Harper, Manning, Clark or whomever, you did nothing. You did not do your duty in opposition to hold the government’s feet to the fire on this, meaning you are as responsible as the Liberals.

    Why? Because you didn’t believe global warming is real, because you plainly decided that the immediate economic gain of places like Alberta and Ontario were more important than anything else. As ex-NDIP illustrates, as well as some of the links Scott provided, most of you still don’t believe it. And yet you expect Canadians to buy into the idea that now only you can do anything to stop climate change. Luckily 6 in 10 Canadians don’t believe you in your new “road to Damascus” conversion – they see it as the political pandering and opportunism that it is.

    You cannot criticize the Liberal record, since you are an accomplice to it. So how about this, if when arguing about this your first words are “But the Liberals did nothing for 13 years…” SHUT UP. You are just as guilty as they are, and are dishonest. On this issue you have no more credibility than the Liberals.

    “Computer Models can’t predict the weather next week . . . let alone next year ”

    EX-NDIP, that statement shows you do not know what you are talking about. Go home and do a little reading.

    Predicting the weather is NOT the same as climate models. Here is an appropriate analogy:

    Climate modeling is like boiling water on the stove. I can predict what will happen as I raise the temperature quite easily – the water gets hotter, the water boils, all bacteria in the water dies.

    Predicting the weather is like trying to predict how the heat will cause currents and eddies in the water. Its like trying to predict where in the boiling pot the next gas bubble will form.

    I might not be able to predict minute by minute where the next bubble forms or where the next current will flow, but I can sure tell you the pot is starting to boil.

    Can you understand the difference? I doubt it…

    Bottom line, if you really want action on the environment, vote NDP or vote Green since they are the only parties with a real commitment and a track record.

  • Kitchener Conservative asked:
    [quote]In recent years, the peninsula has lost ice shelves totalling more than 12,500 square kilometres, equivalent to four times the area of Luxembourg.”, yet the Toronto Star Article on the UN report says the Antarctica is the only continent that isn’t warming. Who’s right then? Does ice loss have to do with increased stress on the shelves from growth into the ocean?[/quote]

    It could also be due to the warmth of the water surrounding Antarctica flowing past the ice. That’s whats been happening up in the Arctic if you’ve been reading reports – scientists believe that the warmer streams of deep water is undercutting the ice from below.. which is why you’re getting shelves of ice breaking away up there – as much as Kate Macmillan would care to deny it.

    Fact is: you’re quibbling here. Stuff is going on everywhere and it needs to be stopped.

  • “The same people, who today think Global Warming is a vast Liberal Conspiracy, used to the same the same about Ozone Layer Depletion”

    The last time a Conservative, Brian Mulroney, was Prime Minister for any significant time in Canada (from 1984 until 1993), we became a signatory nation to the Montreal Protocol. There didn’t seem to be much “in it for us” back then either. In fact, phasing out the ozone-depleting CFCs, except they did something real about it not like the Liberals.

  • The same people, who today think Global Warming is a vast Liberal Conspiracy, used to the same the same about Ozone Layer Depletion. Then they saw the big hole over Antarctica.

    I guess the day New York and Vancouver are under water, then they will listen.

  • “I see over at some Blogging Tory sites they’re trying to cling to the fact that the recent UN Report in Global Warming that I discussed here is somehow bogus because Antarctica is the lone continent which isnt showing an increase in Co2 gasses.”

    I didn’t say that CO2 isn’t increasing in Antarctica, obviously based on Graham’s Law of Effusion CO2 Levels should be the same as the rest of the world or at least close. My question is based on that, given the theory of GHG’s causing the earth to warm (the basis of the science behind the Kyoto Accord), why isn’t Antartica warming like the rest.

    I found it curious that Antarctica, from the UN report, isn’t warming like the other continent’s are. That could be good news based on the dire predictions that sea levels might rise and flood coastal cities because 90% of the world’s ice is locked up there, I don’t know.

    I don’t question whether climat change is real or not, it is! I think there’s a lot more to it than mostly human influence. That’s why I point to Antarctica. What’s going on there, that’s different than the rest of the world? What can we learn from it? Is it evidence that there is more to it than CO2 levels. Is the warming regionalized?

    I think climatology is still too young of a science to have all the answer’s. And it seems to be one of the only scientific discipline’s that doesn’t allow for critical thought. One of the most important things in science is the realization that we don’t know very much yet. It’s what keeps striding for more answers.

    From a link you pointed to it said, “Over the past half century, temperatures in the peninsula have risen by around two degrees Celsius.

    In recent years, the peninsula has lost ice shelves totalling more than 12,500 square kilometres, equivalent to four times the area of Luxembourg.”, yet the Toronto Star Article on the UN report says the Antarctica is the only continent that isn’t warming. Who’s right then? Does ice loss have to do with increased stress on the shelves from growth into the ocean?

    About you’re point ablation on the ice shelves, here is a link explaining what happens. Glaciation

    You said “Because face it, without government stepping in and telling companies to comply, there is no way they’re all going to volunteer out of the altruistic goodness of their corporate hearts.”, you’re right, and that’s one of the problem’s I have with Kyoto because countries like Canada can buy their way out emission reduction with the carbon trading market.

  • Ex-NDIP

    When will you guys cut the crap!!!
    Scientists do not agree . . . fact!!!
    Algore’s movie is pure fiction . . . . fact!!!
    The UN so-called hockey stick graph is fiction . . . . fact!!!
    Computer Models can’t predict the weather next week . . . let alone next year . . . fact!!!
    Where is your list of Climate Experts . . . been waiting for years . . . David Suzikki doesn’t count . . . he’s a Zoologist
    Most of the so-called experts are funded by grants and handouts . . . they hype the hypothisis to continue their funding!!!

    Here’s a couple of good reads . . .

    (numerous links and quotations (and more then “a couple”) deleted by Scott. Ex-NDIP, I have no objection to you posting on here saying you object to Global Warming or anything else on here, but I’m not going to allow you to fill the comments with a gazillion links and quotes. If you want to do that, get your own blogsite and fill it up with links to your heart’s content).

  • Rob

    We have to face it, they’ll never accept “global warming;” to them, it’s just one big vast global liberal conspiracy.

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